Detroit as a model for failed leftism

[Isawred41]

"So just because the popula..."

What?

[DuckStu]

1. The majority of the population of Detroit would want nothing more than the city to be returned to its former glory. So please point me to some people that want terrible schools, unemployment, vacant buildings, crime etc..

I disagree.

It may be true that everyone in Detroit would "Like" things to be wonderful in Detroit,....but most won't lift a finger to help make that happen. I think that is what tman21 meant (if he did indeed say Detroiters don't care).

It's one thing to "want" a new Cadillac,...and quite another thing to work very hard and save for years to buy one.

I work in Detroit every day and have a business here. I see Detroiters buying and selling drugs,...stealing everything they can,...burning their neighbors' houses, smashing windows just for the fun of it,....spray painting walls, etc, etc, etc.

Those ARE NOT the acts of someone who wants Detroit to be a better place. Those are the acts of a people that don't give a hoot.

When Detroiters want Detroit to be a nice place, they'll stop intentionally destroying it and begin to work to rebuild it.

[K-Moto]

Ultimate Fail!!!

I have followed this thread for a while and i can not hold my words in anymore.

1. The majority of the population of Detroit would want nothing more than the city to be returned to its former glory. So please point me to some people that want terrible schools, unemployment, vacant buildings, crime etc.

2. In just about every large metropolitan city there will be ghettos, bad areas or what have you. Hell, go to south side chicago and see if its peaches there and let's not forget L.A. Gangs anyone?

3. I've noticed that most people who like to make comments, are totally clueless to what is the real deal. It is just like a soldier...can we really make assumptions of how "it is" in a war. Only being there can one truly know.

I am born and raised in Detroit, I am black and I went to public schools as well as my family, I lived in just about all the "bad' areas in Detroit(Linwood, Schoolcraft, 7 mile, Joy Rd., and so on).

My father has owned several businesses.
My mother has worked in a career of advanced telecommunications.
My stepmother is a nurse practitioner.
My granfather is a minister.
Grandma owns several "Nice" properties in detroit.

I am currently finishing my second degree and currently working at an automotive research facility.

To the racist or not "technically" racist comments. I am speaking from my own experiences and I have come across the stereotypical black people (remember I am black), but I have come across just as many as any other race in Detroit. So just because the popula

If anyone has some intelligent points to bring up from any perspective...please do but I asked give some foundation to your argument than just simply internet statistics. Just simply experiences from living in Detroit is more credible.

your first point #1, just because i want a golden toilet seat doesn't mean it is gonna fall out of the sky and onto my toilet.

in regard to the rest of your post, you are defending against attacks aimed at the majority of the population; there are always exceptions. i work/have worked with highly motivated and hard working african americans yet at the same time they are outnumbered ridiculously by those who don't exhibit those qualities.

for example; my grandmother's next door neighbor has been a teacher in detroit for 30 some years. it is not only the school system to be blamed for uneducated people; it is the parents and students themselves to blame for substandard attendance and work ethic. over and over again students have to repeat school years because THEY DON"T FUCKING SHOW UP FOR SCHOOL BECAUSE THEY THINK THEY ARE TOO COOL FOR SCHOOL, THEY WANNA BE ALL "GANGSTA" AND SHIT, WANNA BE RAPPERS AND PIMPS AND DRUG DEALERS BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANNA BOTHER PUTTING IN THE HARD WORK TO PULL OFF A DIPLOMA. how the fuck is the government or the school system supposed to fix that shit; hold guns to their heads and threaten to shoot them for truancy? and don't give me some stupid excuse that they live in bad neighborhoods and that is the only way they know to survive. my RA in college was from the shittiest of the shitty neighborhoods, yet worked his ass off, getting 2 degrees in only 5 years.

[Isawred41]

I disagree.

It may be true that everyone in Detroit would "Like" things to be wonderful in Detroit,....but most won't lift a finger to help make that happen. I think that is what tman21 meant (if he did indeed say Detroiters don't care).

It's one thing to "want" a new Cadillac,...and quite another thing to work very hard and save for years to buy one.

I work in Detroit every day and have a business here. I see Detroiters buying and selling drugs,...stealing everything they can,...burning their neighbors' houses, smashing windows just for the fun of it,....spray painting walls, etc, etc, etc.

Those ARE NOT the acts of someone who wants Detroit to be a better place. Those are the acts of a people that don't give a hoot.

When Detroiters want Detroit to be a nice place, they'll stop intentionally destroying it and begin to work to rebuild it.

QFT

I would also like to say...

My father has worked for the same company for the last 29 years, but what gives me the right to brag about what a responsibility in life is? Just because you do what you are "supposed to do" doesn't make you a "good person."

[91civichbstd]

I disagree.

It may be true that everyone in Detroit would "Like" things to be wonderful in Detroit,....but most won't lift a finger to help make that happen. I think that is what tman21 meant (if he did indeed say Detroiters don't care).

It's one thing to "want" a new Cadillac,...and quite another thing to work very hard and save for years to buy one.

I work in Detroit every day and have a business here. I see Detroiters buying and selling drugs,...stealing everything they can,...burning their neighbors' houses, smashing windows just for the fun of it,....spray painting walls, etc, etc, etc.

Those ARE NOT the acts of someone who wants Detroit to be a better place. Those are the acts of a people that don't give a hoot.

When Detroiters want Detroit to be a nice place, they'll stop intentionally destroying it and begin to work to rebuild it.

Respectful comment

Bu we have to realize that people are indeed fighting back to rebuild what is their own. Communities are growing stronger as a result of these type of events. Crime is not something that was invented yesterday. My position as a resident of Detroit, is that people cannot blindly say that all or most of detroit is fucked as a result of the people in it, not wanting to do anything. I speak from direct experience, there are more efforts being put forth than ever before...I even volunteer myself for local neighborhood events and tasks...

Just FYI the whole im gansta shit in high school is no different than anywhere else...to be honest it's kinda lame. The biggest challenge that black males have in their life, is trying not to fall in the stereotype.



Let me take a second to commend you on having a business in the city...that is awesome you are still doing the city a great deed.

[91civichbstd]

"So just because the popula..."

What?

i honestly do not understand your question...

*corrected
So just because the population looks a certain way from the outside does not mean that's what it is.

[91civichbstd]

QFT

I would also like to say...

My father has worked for the same company for the last 29 years, but what gives me the right to brag about what a responsibility in life is? Just because you do what you are "supposed to do" doesn't make you a "good person."

In regards to who...what qualifies someone as a good person. There a many levels to what you are "supposed to do"

[Isawred41]

In regards to who...what qualifies someone as a good person.

It wasn't directed towards you, i was just stating a fact.

There a many levels to what you are "supposed to do"

That is my point. As far as drugs and vandalism go, I believe we can all agree that is what you are NOT supposed to do.


But look at what the majority has done to you, 91civichbstd. Aren't you tired of always having to defend yourself? Aren't you sick of what the people in your city do to the city? i.e. politicians, drug dealers, junkies Just a question really... I don't think it takes anyone of one specific color to see that Detroit ISN'T(as a whole) a good city.

[Isawred41]

i honestly do not understand your question...

*corrected
So just because the population looks a certain way from the outside does not mean that's what it is.

It was an incomplete sentence... I wanted to know what you meant to say...

[91civichbstd]

It was an incomplete sentence... I wanted to know what you meant to say...

i did not realize that i did not finish the minor conclusion...

I will admit that Detroit is torn down in every way possible. But from children to senior citizens, the effort being forth to change the city's situation is incredible. The neighborhood watches, the music and dance programs, the overall intensity increase scholastically in schools in my opinion is a great step.

The majority, stereotypical, ignorant people in detroit are making the sensible people come together strongly.

[Isawred41]

i did not realize that i did not finish the minor conclusion...

I will admit that Detroit is torn down in every way possible. But from children to senior citizens, the effort being forth to change the city's situation is incredible. The neighborhood watches, the music and dance programs, the overall intensity increase scholastically in schools in my opinion is a great step.

The majority, stereotypical, ignorant people in detroit are making the sensible people come together strongly.

Very well put!

[Isawred41]

The majority, stereotypical, ignorant people in detroit are making the sensible people come together strongly.

Do you think they outweigh each other?

[tman21]

I disagree.

It may be true that everyone in Detroit would "Like" things to be wonderful in Detroit,....but most won't lift a finger to help make that happen. I think that is what tman21 meant (if he did indeed say Detroiters don't care).

That's the point I was trying to make. Thank you!

I see Detroiters buying and selling drugs,...stealing everything they can,...burning their neighbors' houses, smashing windows just for the fun of it,....spray painting walls, etc, etc, etc.

Thats the mentality of the people. For example, the owners of the house next to me up and moved to las vegas. While their house was for sale, I was cutting their grass and cleaning their yard every week for $15. That is me helping my fellow neighbor out because a lawn service would charge them $35. When they could no longer pay the mortgage, the house went into foreclosure. I still continued to cut the grass and keep the yard up for free because I don't want MY house to look bad. This is what I meant.

Those ARE NOT the acts of someone who wants Detroit to be a better place. Those are the acts of a people that don't give a hoot.

When Detroiters want Detroit to be a nice place, they'll stop intentionally destroying it and begin to work to rebuild it.

My point exactly.

[DuckStu]

When they could no longer pay the mortgage, the house went into foreclosure. I still continued to cut the grass and keep the yard up for free because I don't want MY house to look bad.

Good job.

I do the same thing.

Each summer I fill my 8 yard dumpster (which I pay $190 a month for) to the top,... twice with the grass, garbage, small trees etc from the building across the street and the burnt house behind my building.

People come up to me and ask "So you're the new owner huh?" They look startled when I tell them I'm not,....I'm just mowing the lawn, picking up the needles, vodka bottles, used diapers, paper cups, old sofas etc because it makes the neighborhood look better.

The apartment building next to that one is occupied. In the summer there will be like 10 people sitting outside,... but when I start cleaning,...they all scatter. I don't know if they're embarassed, or they think I might ask them to help.

I can't help but wonder,.. It's their home after-all,.. not mine. I go home to the suburbs, to a nice house, with central air and a big TV. It's not like I'm the one that has to step over the feeces and urine when I walk out of my door. People in my neighborhood clean up their place,..why can't these people? I come home after a long day at work and mow my lawn,.. rake my leaves, and scrape the grass out of the cracks in my driveway. They sit there all day. It's not like they should be too tired.

Sigh.

It's not a money thing either. The dumpster is 50' away. It would only take those 10 people like 5 minutes a week and they'd have a nice looking place to live. Instead,..they'll sit there all summer and never pick up a single piece of trash. It's almost as if they feel more comfortable with it like that.

[91civichbstd]

Enjoying this thread...I love when real issues are discused on a forum. So I have to ask a question. Do you feel a person can take pride in something i.e. a neighhborhood if that something has nothing significant to offer? Should that person take responsibility because it's simply around them.

Or is there another reason?

I clean and mow the foreclosed homes around my home, as is said to make my house look good because i and my family had put to much work in making what it is now.

[Isawred41]

Enjoying this thread...I love when real issues are discused on a forum.

I do too!

So I have to ask a question. Do you feel a person can take pride in something i.e. a neighhborhood if that something has nothing significant to offer? Should that person take responsibility because it's simply around them.

Or is there another reason?

I clean and mow the foreclosed homes around my home, as is said to make my house look good because i and my family had put to much work in making what it is now.

I think anyone can take pride in anything that has nothing significant to offer! But I think the real question is, Do other people see it that way? If everyone took responsibility for what is around them, Detroit would NOT be(as a whole) what it is today.

I take pride in my neighborhood, I take pride in my home, I take pride in my family. I know other people do, but some people have a funny way of showing it.

[Isawred41]

..they'll sit there all summer and never pick up a single piece of trash. It's almost as if they feel more comfortable with it like that.

If I am walking through a parking lot, if I am grocery shopping or what not, I will pick up garbage. Stray cups, plastic bags, whatever. Because I believe people have a collective responsibility to respect their surroundings!

It amazes me the amount of people that JUST don't care. Even where I live(45 minutes outside of Detroit)! Maybe it is just because I am a "redneck" who was taught to respect my surroundings...

[peopleunderthe]

I have some thoughts. Part of the reason people deal drugs and commit crime is because of lack of education... but also because of lack of other opportunities.

I have friends living in detroit who specifically keep their bills and car insurance and such tied to an address outside the city due to some of the city taxes. Now WHY would I want to go and open a business in detroit where there is less foot traffic and higher taxes than the burbs.

If there is a 4% city tax on my income on top of all the other state and federal taxes I for sure would not want to reside in detroit. If your making $100k a year that is $4000 out of your pocket a year to live in a shittier looking place on top of the other 33% the fed and state gov takes out of my check. That was my point of the original post... the idea of "share the wealth" and take money from productive people to provide for the less fortunate clearly doesnt work when there is a mass exodus and everyone lives on the other side of 8 mile.

I think this is where some of the racism is rooted. people point fingers at others looking for handouts... who just happen to be black. With the way some of the city tax is set up there is no way to live in detroit and make an honest living if your poor trying to get a decent living going. So you turn to.... selling drugs and voila $1k + a week untaxed earnings.

when the system is set up to leech off your productiveness... people find ways around the system. Be it moving elsewhere where taxes are lower, or turning to crime. A perfect example is Nissan moving its US headquarters from tax heavy Southern California to low tax Tennessee (and selling rocks...jk ) .

cliffs notes: lower taxes means more personal income = more motivated productive ppl.

[Joezilla]

no mention of the riots and the lovely coleman young? basically killed detroit? that dude was the most racist mother fucker ever.

[Isawred41]

no mention of the riots and the lovely coleman young? basically killed detroit? that dude was the most racist mother fucker ever.

I mentioned the race riots... Then everyone thought I was racists...